FU - FairAndUnbalanced.com - Latest comments on Gay Rights and Maine Majoritarianism

In response to: Gay Rights and Maine Majoritarianism

J [Visitor] — Tue, 15 Jun 2010 18:31:23 +0000

Humanist,

You have just got to stop referring to God in the She person.

I cannot concentrate on the very good points you are making with this absurd distraction in place.

J

In response to: Gay Rights and Maine Majoritarianism

JMyste [Visitor] — Tue, 15 Jun 2010 18:25:16 +0000

Ned,

"Nonetheless, God is the Creator of all people (in my humble opinion) so does that mean that God is hypocritical to judge any of said people for doing wrong things?"

The undisputed fact that God created us all is a completely separate question from whether He is hypocritical to judge us for doing wrong things for several reasons. First, just because you can build a person, it does not mean you are qualified to judge it. Secondly, the absolute fact that God is qualified to judge a person for doing wrong, does not mean that homosexuality is wrong. Thirdly, the fact that home-sexuality is wrong, does not mean that God puts it at the top of His list of moral offenses. Fourthly, and most importantly, not all facts are created equal.

I do agree that anyone who engages in, or even thinks about, a homosexual act should be severely punished. I do not agree that you accurately represent God's position in this matter, but I appreciate your effort to do so in His divine absence. While it is true that God seeded us all with the ability to love, and that He, not the homo-sexual, is responsible for our desire to express and engage is sexual love, He also wanted to punish anyone who acts on that desire in an unapproved way.

I am sure your thoughts on this matter or very rational. You probably reason thus: If He accepts the circular notion that it is OK to punish someone for sinning by eating an apple that taught them how to commit sin, then why not punish these people (if we can even call them people, the dirty filthy maggots, with their love and their efforts to be mated, even against our objections, any their other dark desires that they use to victimize us normal healthy people)?!

Since the Bible is a collection of God's words, and there are inspired messengers of God today, I propose we amend it with God's current thinking.

Sincerely,
J

In response to: Gay Rights and Maine Majoritarianism

ned [Visitor] — Tue, 15 Jun 2010 03:40:39 +0000

http://wisdomisvindicated.blogspot.com

Wait, do Quakers not believe in God anymore?

Nonetheless, God is the Creator of all people (in my humble opinion) so does that mean that God is hypocritical to judge any of said people for doing wrong things?

In response to: Gay Rights and Maine Majoritarianism

humanist [Visitor] — Thu, 12 Nov 2009 17:36:30 +0000

"'I'd say it's one thing to present an issue/platform squarely to voters and let them vote,' says Ned. 'And another to simply get people elected who covertly share your agenda.'"
... Which is precisely what the moneyed elite have been doing since day one. (Slavery being only the starkest example.)

On the other hand, I've long since abandoned the conflation of democracy with majority rule. "Democracy" means literally "rule by the people," an important distinction. In the Quaker community, we make decisions not by majority, but by consensus; it can be frustrating, but it's important to insure that everyone's needs are met.

The problem of the bigoted majority can also be addressed by a better-educated and more-involved majority. As it is, many issues decided by vote in this country come down to who has the better propaganda, which is hardly democratic. Also, many potential voters are either unengaged or disenfranchised because the real decisions of government are almost all made by elected representatives with little or no actual accountability to the populace.

Ned, I suspect that in fact, Burr believes, as a Christian, that God could care less who you love or how you express that love so long as you are not harming yourself or one of Her other children. Any God who would be that petty and vindictive (and hypocritical, as She was, after all, the one who created some people homo- or bisexual in the first place) isn't worth believing in.

In the past (and present) so-called Christians have thumped their Bibles and proclaimed "God is on our side" in defending the murder and/or oppression of Jews, Muslims, pagans, people of color ... all the usual suspects who get trotted out as scapegoats for the problems of society as a whole.

Just such a "Christian" might look upon the prospect of our (mildly) more progressive society and say "you're assuming that God's position on women voting/entering the workforce/interracial marriage/slavery will change." No, God - if such even exists - hasn't changed Her position on any of these matters. It is only society which has changed its position, becoming more enlightened. So it will be, if God smiles upon us, on the issue of homosexuality.

If there is a God, you have to think she'd support the separation of Church and Hate.

On the other hand (is that the third by now), coming at this controversy from the other side of the spectrum, there's this essay a friend of mine posted recently on her Facebook: http://queerkidssaynomarriage.wordpress.com. It's basically young queer activists saying "wait, since when did queer rights hinge on legalizing gay marriage? We've got other (bigger, more systemic) problems to deal with here."

In response to: Gay Rights and Maine Majoritarianism

Caroline [Visitor] — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:59:23 +0000

You linked this post in my blog, and I must agree with everything 100%. We must get marriage equality passed in NY and NJ.

I was hoping that Maine would be the spark that lights a bonfire, but I guess not. Having lived in NY before, I know that it will not make the ballot there (rarely any ballot initiatives there). NJ I'm not sure, but I hope that if it does make the ballot, at the very least our younger voters show up at the polls.

In response to: Gay Rights and Maine Majoritarianism

ned [Visitor] — Tue, 10 Nov 2009 04:54:17 +0000

Actually, Burr, as I stated in the post, the Maine referendum is a demonstration of the healthy tension republican and democratic principles. And there are more criteria for proper representation than simply having time to "examine issues in detail." The majority of Mainers apparently viewed this issue than their elected representatives.

But about how history will view my opposition to homosexual marriage . . . given your profession of Christian faith, it is notable that you seem to believe that God's view of homosexual acts will change.